不得不做——关于《死亡 我多年的梦想》

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不得不做——关于《死亡 我多年的梦想》

杜曦云 & 李勇政

时间:2015年7月9日

 

杜 :2015年6月9日晚,贵州省毕节市七星关区4名儿童(系兄妹)服农药中毒死亡,“死亡 我多年的梦想”这句话,据说来自其中一个孩子的遗书。你相信这句话的真实性吗?

 

李 :死亡的4个孩子中的老大,不到15岁,我不能确定网上遗书的真伪,这句话在几个版本中都有。

 

杜 :你觉得这4名儿童为什么选择这种方式结束生命?

 

李 :这个世界给予他们的一定操蛋极了。

 

杜 :“死亡 我多年的梦想”这句话触动你了?

 

李 :是的,我曾经梦见自己陷入到一片黑色的沼泽中,感觉快要死了,身体漂浮起来,温暖而舒坦……我也曾认为自己活不过30岁,而我却活了这么久。经历了很多不堪的事情,希望总是一次次的占了上风。而现实没能给予他们希望。

 

杜 :你如何看待死亡和生存权利的关系?

 

李 :据媒体报道,2012年11月16日,同样是在贵州毕节市七星关区街头,五个孩子在冬天为了避寒,在垃圾箱里生火取暖,导致一氧化碳中毒而死亡,其年龄均在10岁左右。让人心碎的事情,不停的发生和被遗忘。《世界人权宣言》有着对生存权利的定义:“人人有权享有为维持他本人和家属的健康和福利所需要的生活水准,包括食物、衣着、住房、医疗和必要的社会服务。”不仅包含生命安全和基本自由不受侵犯、人格尊严不受凌辱,还包括人们赖以生存的财产不遭掠夺等。不过,执着于这些会被认为太过书呆子气,甚至会将自己置身于不测灾祸中。在广大的地区,怎么活着比谈权利更为现实。

 

杜 :生命终归要结束,死亡是生命的一部分。繁华似锦或痛苦缠身,也终归是要消逝的,名利和恩怨,似乎面对死亡时变得虚无。你怎么看它们和死亡的关系?

 

李 :如果死亡是终点,它一定提示着生存,此在就是全部,我们为什么不能更嗨一些,更无所畏惧、肆无忌惮呢?那么所遭遇的繁华似锦或痛苦缠身不正是呼吸着的证明吗?或许,死亡“只是一种无法回应的状态”,一个被悬置的追问,那么繁华似锦或痛苦缠身不就有了绵长的隐喻,不正是所谓的存在的意义?

 

杜 :对于主动选择死亡的人,活着的人说什么都无力。在艰难的生存处境中,很多人的智慧和想象力日渐枯竭,意志走向消沉。你自己呢?

 

李 :如果是成年人对死亡的主动选择,我或许就此沉默,甚至会赋予波德里亚式的理解:主动的死亡是实现自由的方式。人被现实的一切所塑造,主动的选择死亡就是对控制机制的反对,具有形而上的象征性。而此时这样说,显得虚伪而苍白——是什么样的控制啊,他们仅仅还是一朵朵花蕾!我将自己今天的所得归于命运,而不是比他人洞见更多,我没有去实践自由的勇气,也没有做到无所畏惧、肆无忌惮。我只是保有怀疑,当多数人兴高采烈前行的时候,我渴望弱弱的后退一步。

 

杜 :这4位儿童的生命以这种方式消逝,你推想是什么原因造成的?

 

李 :看报道说,在中国,由于父母在城市里打工,留在农村的孩子有6100万,由祖父母或其他家庭成员养育;有近1000万的孩子一年见不到一次父母,还有200万左右的孩子无人抚养。这次自杀的4个孩子,还有之前在这个城市死去的5个孩子,都是留守儿童。留守,他们在守候什么呢?这是被抛弃的一代人,不论这个时代被渲染得多么牛逼,这个伤口足可以吞噬一切的光鲜。

 

杜 :你觉得在这个地区,类似的事情还会发生吗?

 

李 :还会的,这个社会不太在乎他人的痛苦,更不善于从历史中吸取教训。

 

杜 :类似的事情,怎样才能避免呢?

 

李 :不知道。唯一知道的,是自己的行动,比如我会去响应一些民间的救助组织,做一些力所能及的事情.也比如,这悲伤的事情,让我不能掩饰自己的情感,必须去做这一件作品。

 

杜 :2000块岩盐在海滩上摆放成“死亡 我多年的梦想”的字。用喜马拉雅山的岩盐,有形而上的含义。盐被海水冲刷、融化,有转化、回归的意味。为什么用2000块?

 

李 :盐对于我来讲,有着特殊的象征,这不重要,每个人对于喜马拉雅、盐、大海,都有不同的感受。没有什么象征具有具有普遍意义。2000块只是一个巧合,找到一片合适的海滩,每个字高2米左右,很契合环境,8个字共需要1170块盐块。展览现场大概830平方米用于放置盐块,每平方米放置一块,人可以穿行其中,加起来恰好2000块。

 

杜 :你把有具体社会原因的死亡,转化成诗意的艺术作品,在扩展人们对生命的感叹和思考时,会不会在诗意中把具体的死因虚无掉?

 

李 :每时每刻都不幸的事情发生,很多事情,不在于你怎么去表达,而在于表达的本身,谁也不能让一件事情长久的停留,一件事总会被另一件事所淹没,快到甚至你还来不及追问、恢复你的平静。我只是想做点什么,或这件事情让我觉得不得不这么做,即使它已经被遗忘掉了。

 

杜 :对你来说,以艺术家的身份、以艺术作品的方式、在艺术体系中传播,有什么作用?

 

李 :不知道。或许以哪种方式,在哪里体系里面传播,都没有明确的答案。但我们不得不做一些事情,希望可能会出现一些美好的结果,来鼓舞此时的行动。毕竟,我们还在好好的活着。

 

 

  杜曦云:批评家、策展人、上海昊美术馆副馆长
(译)康书雅

  

 

It Must Be Done: Regarding Death, a dream of mine for many years

Du Xiyun & Li Yongzheng

Date: July 9, 2015

 

D  :  On June 9, 2015, four children (siblings) died by imbibing pesticide in Qixing district, Bijie city, Guizhou province. It was said that the sentence, “Death, a dream of mine for many years,” was written by one of the children in a suicide letter. Do you believe this sentence is true?

 

L  :  The oldest child of the four was not yet 15 years old. I cannot confirm the veracity of the suicide note on the internet. There were several versions of this sentence.

 

D  :  Why do you think the four children selected this method to end their lives?

 

L  :  This world was a hellhole for them.

 

D  :  Were you moved by the sentence “Death, a dream of mine for many years?”

 

L  :  I was. I have dreamt that I was sinking into a black swamp, and that I would soon die. My body floated, warm and comfortable… I also thought that I would not live to see 30, but I’ve now lived this long. While experiencing so many unbearable things, hope kept me on top. But reality could never give them that hope.

 

D  :  How do you see the relationship between death and the right to life?

 

L  :  According to media reports, on November 16, 2012, on the same streets of Qixing district, Bijie city, five children were hiding in a dumpster to escape the winter cold. They started a fire and died of carbon monoxide inhalation. The average age was 10. What is heartbreaking is that such things are constantly happening and being forgotten. The definition of the right to life in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights reads, “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services.” It not only contains safety and basic freedom from assault, but also forbids things like the plunder of wealth that humans need to survive. But there’s a bookworm-like atmosphere to becoming attached to these documents, and it can even lead to putting yourself in unexpected danger. In a broad land, how to live is more real than discussing rights.

 

D  :  Life ultimately ends, and death is an inevitable part of it. Whether filled with joy or sorrow, all of it must disappear. Before death, concerns such as fame, wealth, favors and grudges all seem empty. How do you see their relation to death?

 

L  :  If death is the end, it certainly encourages life. If this is everything, why can’t we be a bit more amazed, a bit more fearless, and live without restraints? Aren’t the joy and sorrow you speak of evidence of life? Or rather, if death is “just a state of being from which one cannot return,” an end to all questions, then don’t the joy and sorrow have a lingering significance? Aren’t they the meaning of existence?

 

D  :  Nothing that living people say can affect those who choose to end their lives. When living in difficult circumstances, many people gradually lose their wisdom and imagination, and their willpower slowly disappears. Has this happened to you?

 

L  :  If an adult person chooses to end their life, I would have nothing to say. I would even understand it as Baudrillard does, that choosing death can be a method of actualizing freedom. Humans are molded by reality, and choosing to die is a form of resistance to these mechanisms of control. This resistance possesses metaphysical symbolism. But in this case I would say it seems false and pale. What kind of control? They were just beginning their lives! Everything I have now, I attribute to fate. I’m no more insightful than anyone else and I don’t have the courage to actualize my freedom, but I’m also not filled with fear or constrained. I just remain doubtful. When everyone else is bursting with joy, I desire to take a small step backwards.

 

D  :  What do you think led these four children to lose their lives in this way?

 

L  :  According to the papers, in China there are 61 million children who stay in villages while their parents go to work in the cities. They are raised by their grandparents or other relatives. There are close to 10 million children who don’t see their parents at all in a year, and there are around two million children with no one caring for them at all. The four children who committed suicide, and the five children who died before, all number among these left-behind children. When they’re left-behind, what are they waiting for? This is a generation that has been abandoned. However much insane exaggeration there is about this era, this is a wound that can swallow all of the light.

 

D  :  Do you think similar events will occur in the same area?

 

L  :  Yes. In this society, we don’t care much for the pain of others, and we’re not good at learning from the past.

 

D  :  How can we prevent similar occurrences?

 

L  :  I don’t know. All I know is, it starts with personal action. For example, I worked with some non-governmental relief organizations and did what I could. This kind of terrible thing left me unable to hide my emotions, and I had to make an artwork about it.

 

D  :  2,000 blocks of rock salt are placed on the beach spell out, “Death, a dream of mine for many years.” There is a metaphysical significance to your use of Himalayan rock salt. The salt is washed away by the sea. It melts and is transformed, indicating a return. Why were there 2,000 blocks?

 

L  :  To me, salt is a particular symbol, but this is unimportant because everyone has a different impression of the Himalayas, salt, and the ocean. There is no symbol with a universal meaning. 2,000 blocks is an arbitrary number. I found a suitable beach and each character was two meters high. It suited the environment, and I needed 1,170 blocks to spell out the eight characters. Onsite, about 830 square meters were covered by the blocks, with one block on each square meter. You can do the math, and it adds up to 2,000 blocks.

 

D  :  You take the specific societal causes of their death and transform them into a poetic artwork. When expanding the laments and thoughts that humans have about their lives, are you negating the specific causes of death with these poetics?

 

L  :  Misfortunes are constantly occurring and they are numerous. No matter how you express them or what the expression is, you cannot preserve something for eternity. One incident will always be swallowed by the next, until even you yourself cannot return to your questioning state and cannot regain your tranquility. I just wanted to make something. Or rather, this event forced me to do this, even if it is already forgotten.

 

D  :  For you, what is the use of the artistic identity, artistic methods, and dissemination in the art system?

 

L  :   I don’t know. Perhaps using that kind of method inside that kind of system cannot produce a clear answer. But we have to do something. I hope it can produce a beautiful result and encourage action in this moment. In the end, we’re still living well.

 

Translated by Sophia Kidd and R. Orion


 

死亡我多年的梦想-Death Has Been My Dream for a Long Time

杜曦云:2015年6月9日晚贵州省毕节市七星关区4名儿童(系兄妹)服农药中毒死亡,“死亡 我多年的梦想”这句话,据说来自其中一个孩子的遗书。你相信这句话的真实性吗?

On June 9, 2015, four children (siblings) died by imbibing pesticide in Qixing district, Bijie city, Guizhou province. It was said that the sentence, “Death, a dream of mine for many years,” was written by one of the children in a suicide letter. Do you believe this sentence is true?

 

假想死亡-Imagining Death

死亡,我不相信这件事,因为我不会在场确认它已经发生了。对于这件事我不能发言,因为我还没准备好。——安迪·沃霍尔

“I don’t believe in [death], because you’re not around to know it happened. I can’t say anything because I’m not prepared for it.” -Andy Warhol

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